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Chris Lee is a former Los Angeles Times staff writer who covered movies, music, media and Hollywood culture.

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Los Angeles Times Staff Writer. Enter Email Address. Chris Lee. More From the Los Angeles Times. Mark, Just a thought..

There is a gay issue bought up daily. It would not be difficult to believe that these are of extreme importance to a very large segment of the population.

I get that, but come on. It can make sense when you see what has gone on in this blog post. Suddenly all kinds of posters show up, hinting that they know of gay Amish, insinuating this or that, all with a subtle message.

Those of us who visit and comment regularly on Amish America can recognize the high percentage of new posters on this page. What some people fail to realize is that all it takes on an open forum like this is for one person to sign in under several email accounts and create the illusion that there are a whole bunch of people out there on their side of the issue … in this case the gay agenda.

Read down through this post now that it has been up for a day or so and just see if you dont get the feeling that there are probably all kinds of gay Amish lurking out there.

But those of us who have grown up Amish or spent decades working and living among them know the facts. Of the thousands of Amish and ex-Amish, Mennonites and ex-Mennonites, Brethren, Apostolic Christian, Hutterites … I have yet to personally meet one that claims to be gay.

Again, all it takes is one activist on an open blog like this to create an illusion of many. I dont see some of the names of those who I genuinely know are ex-Amish and Mennonite.

In our conservative Anabaptist churches, the issue of homosexuality is rarely even discussed. And if he is judged, we are not the ones who judge, rather Scripture judges.

Just as Christ says: Whoever denounces me and rejects my teachings, the word that I have spoken has already judged him and will judge him on the last Day.

For we know well that God saves no one apart from His Word, for it is truth and there is no lie in it. Where there is no faith, no new birth or rebirth, no penance and improvement, over these Christ has already passed judgment, for He says: If you do not believe that I am the One, then you will die in your sins.

My point in posting this was to underscore that, in contrast to much of mainstream society, this behavior is viewed as unequivocally sinful and not acceptable to Amish…and to look at how Amish might deal with this situation when and if it occurs.

With all respect, however, I do think that the idea that of thousands and thousands of Amish, ex-Amish, etc, that not one would have dealt with homosexuality, to be frankly pretty hard to believe, and also a bit of idealizing the Amish.

After all, if Amish are human and sinful by nature, why would they be immune, across-the-board, to this particular issue?

The reason, frankly, is that it is too much of an energy drain and inevitably gets into pretty negative territory though some of these contributions were interesting to read.

No offense to anyone here. I hope you understand. You are correct, Erik, that Amish people deal with the same temptations as other people.

After all, there have been Amish rapes, incest, and other similar sins, including a few murders. Big companies have also been known to hire people to give them good PR on the web Wikipedia articles are a common target , and it is not just related to social and political issues.

My citation of not knowing any personally was not meant to say that none exists—I obviously only know a small percentage—but perhaps I should confess to feeling that someone needs to voice the other side of the issue, from within the conservative Anabaptist community.

You are a brave man, though, Erik. How about trying something on the socialism vs. More reader comments does drive up web stats you know!

Just keep that hardhat on! Sure thing, and I appreciate you taking that stance. Erik, Thanks for letting us share and make our comments concerning a difficult subject.

The rest, totally not. It is a Last Days attempt to deceive the multitudes away from truth. This prophecy has come to pass: 2 Timothy For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lowers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power.

And from such people turn away. Having grown up Amish I must say the chances of being homosexual are extremely rare. It is a subject that was rarely spoken about simply because an Amish person very rarely came in contact with an openly gay person.

Growing up I never heard of a gay Amish person or Ex-Amish for that matter. However about six month ago i read an article about an ExAmish man, Eli Stutzman,who was openly gay plus he spent quite a few years in prison on drug and murder charges.

As for finding gay folk among the Amish — I would think that the whole way Amish society is set up would make it largely self-eliminating of gays and lesbians.

As well, up until fairly recently, it was very hard to live as a gay or lesbian person in a rural area just owning to the higher, non-anonymous way of life that rural living entails to begin with.

The General Social Survey asks people their sexual orientation. Lesbians are fewer. Or some of the popular TV shows.

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: …. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

And the next verse gives the summary of why people turn into homosexuals: And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient.

When we turn away from God willfully, perversion is our doom. Of course, the homosexual agenda has so taken over the mass media of our nation in the last years so that it is now politically incorrect to call sodomy perversion.

And they are trying really, really hard to convince us all that we are more homosexual than we think. If we tell ourselves enough times that we are sick, we probably will become sick.

If people dont want God to rule over them, He will not force Himself upon them. But they will have to suffer the consequences of their decision.

The Bible teaches that homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of God and that an abomination is something God hates.

Oh, is that why people are gay? I suppose we can set the science aside, then. You know, the science that you make use of on a daily basis.

It has nothing to teach us on an issue that you find offensive. And, oh by the way, the Bible was written by men, and edited over and over again by — you guessed it more men.

So, taking it so literally seems rather naive. Being formerly Amish, I knew Amish men and woman who I think, looking back, were gay and lesbian.

I had an uncle who never married and still contributed to the community and I suspect he was gay for various other reasons. And to just clarify, my group of Amish never judged as harshly as you describe, Erik.

It was never construed in such a negative light — more off the radar, like you mentioned. Thanks for posting this, Erik. Marcus, I enjoyed your comments about scripture and finding scripture to support your personal view.

Read genesis , Genesis 16, Exodus , Numbers , Deuteronomy and Deuteronomy and pick the one you like the best.

Marcus, I feel sad when I read your post. I understand you wanting to be outside of Amish if that is for you. When people share scriptures it is with the purpose of helping people see the truth not to thump on people.

If you knew a family was in a burning house would you not try to save them? You say it was written by men.

Because of His great love for us. The truth will set you free. Valerie, thank you for sharing your well-meaning thoughts.

As much as I share your passion, I was curious to know more and to expand myself beyond what was told to me in my religious upbringing.

Thus, my reason for leaving the order. I studied and traveled and broadened my mind. And, while you have a right to your opinions, beliefs, and passions, I know your reaching out is from a place of love.

Just know that God is everywhere, in the leaves, in nature, in everything. But looking through life with only a biblical filter is narrow, limiting and ultimately not for me.

Please respect that and please, please, please stop proselytizing! Thank you. Thanks, Tom. Not really interested. And, not this seems off-topic as we were not discussing marriage.

We were discussing Amish views of homosexuality. I will say that you will never see or hear an Amish person speak unkindly about gays and lesbians — unlike so many in the evangelical movement.

Judgement is really something left to God, at least in the Anabaptist tradition. There are so many more important things to be focused on like feeding the growing number of poor and hungry.

Marcus, I know a few Amish that are not so kind and nonjudgmental when it comes to gays. I sure would like to sit down and have a discussion with you some day.

Have a great weekend. Which Amish community are you familiar with? Yes, it would be good to sit down with you one day.

Maggie, you may not have meant it, as text has no tone, but your post came off as s bit insensitive. Who cares what percentage gay people make up of the general population — whatever the number is, there is no excuse to continue to allow for the daily inequalities Gay Americans face everyday with job discrimination, marriage inequality, no survivor benefits from social security, no hospital visitations, higher federal tax rates and the list goes on and on.

You could say the same about the Amish in that they are a small group, a tiny percent of the population — does this make them any less valid?

Their religious beliefs are at least recognized and specific rights are afforded to them because of those beliefs.

Is it really American for the majority to impose their will over the minority? I think not.

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They spoke German at home and at church, but were not Amish. They started switching to English when the oldest of the children started going to the public school.

It would have been a lot nicer with hay made the old way, before hay balers. It was much softer, with not so many scratchy ends where the hay is cut and bent by the baler.

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